Showing posts with label fundamentalism. Show all posts
Showing posts with label fundamentalism. Show all posts

Thursday, December 31, 2009

TF - Chapter 3 part 2

The last half of this chapter is a rehashing of things I have covered before on my blog. Instead of posting about them again I will just link to what I wrote before.

The first of these last two sections is on Textual Criticism. Colson is not theologian nor is he a biblical scholar. I would think it is a safe bet that he cannot read ancient Greek nor can he read ancient Hebrew. Colson has a law degree. Yet, in this section, Colson makes no references to any outside materials. The one end note in this section just talks about the date of P52, which is a small fragment of the Gospel of John. Even then he is dishonest with it, not mentioning that it is only a fragment of a few verses. He also doesn't seem to know about textual and higher criticism, which are two separate things. Instead he treats them as if they are the same thing.

The first claim he makes is:

Beyond the archeological discoveries, the truth claims of the Bible are supported by the uncanny coherence and unity of the Bible itself. It consists of sixty-six books, or seventy-three, as in the Catholic tradition, written over 1,500 years by forty people in three different languages, and yet there's a remarkable harmony and consistency in the overarching story. The ancient manuscripts possess an astounding consistency and integrity.

I have heard this claim before and it is ridiculous from the premise. First off it is not really that hard to add to a series that you have read. Fanfic exists for a reason. Also, has Colson or anyone who makes this claim ever looked in the Fantasy/Science Fiction section of a bookstore? In the Star Wars section alone there are several authors who have read the previous work (or at least glanced at it) and created a "coherent" arching story line through it all. Does this mean Star Wars is true now? I can hear the objections already, well that doesn't go over 1,000 of years and different languages (actually it does go over different languages) and the original author is still alive. So let's use the example of the Vedas. They were compiled from 1500 BCE to 500 BCE. That is 1000 years which is close to 1500. They were of oral tradition before that, much like the Tanakh. The original authors are unknown but the Vedas claim to be directly from Brahma. It is highly likely that there were several authors involved in the creation of the Vedas. So why should I take the Bible as truth and not the Vedas?

Next, does the Bible contain an "uncanny coherence and unity"? Let's refer to the skeptic's annotated Bible. They have a list of 442 contradictions found in the Bible (that is not counting the near 1500 absurdities they have listed also). That doesn't seem very coherent or unified to me. Also what is the overarching story in the Bible? I see the claim that the overarching story is the same throughout but no one bothers to say what that story is? Is it Good Vs. Evil in God's triumph over Satan and sin, or is it how God wants to have a personal relationship with everyone, or is it about the prophecies of the end of the world, or maybe something else? What is it? Each of these things I listed are in the Bible and they are each very different stories.

Colson never talks about his claims or present evidence, he just makes the claim and expects to be believed. I am sorry that is not enough for me, especially from someone who has been convicted of obstruction of justice for his actions in the Watergate scandal. That was before Colson was "born again" so surely he has changed now. He would not make any hypocritical responses or show no reason to not be trusted today, would he? If Colson expects to convince anyone of what he is saying, he needs more than words, he needs facts and evidence. This is the problem for most fundamentalist evangelicals, facts and evidence. I am expected to take their word on everything they say because they are speaking for God. Well there are a lot of people speaking for God what makes you so different than the others? I want facts and evidence. If you don't bring those you might as well leave.

For his next claim, Colson compares apples with oranges. He goes on about how there are so many copies of the Bible and not the Iliad or other random works of fiction that are not considered the word of God today. I have covered this before here and here.

He ends his section on textual criticism with the claim:

Why are the manuscript copies of Scripture so accurate? Jewish tradition provides one answer. According to Hebrew practice, only eyewitness testimony was accepted; and when copying documents, the Jews would copy one letter at a time - not word by word, not phrase by phrase, not sentence by sentence.

Again no notes on where he got this information. Is it really that hard to document your sources? I can't find a source for this anywhere. What I have found are talks about how Jewish copyists did things during the Middle Ages and brief overview of Textual Criticism in the Jewish study Bible. If anyone can find where Colson got this information from let me know.

The next part of the chapter is about how the Bible has changed lives. This is suppose to mean that the Bible is true. Ignore all the stories from every other religion in the world of people whose lives were changed by them (here, here, here, here, etc). This line of reasoning makes every religion true and atheism true, which is just not possible. So what does Colson do to show that this is true only for Christianity? Absolutely nothing, instead he goes off on Dawkins, Hitchens and Harris:

The latest wave of atheist literature of the Dawkins-Hitchens-Harris genre ignores the centuries of careful scholarship and evidence; taking verses and sections out of context, these authors argue that the Bible is a dreadful book filled with violence and war, and reflects a mean-spirited God who represses people - a "celestial dictatorship," in Hitchens's words. (The principles of interpretation these authors employ have been scorned even by secular peers.)

The article that Colson is quoting is "An Atheist Responds" from the Washington Post July 14, 2007 (Colson actually cited this source). Here is the quote:

It's uncommonly generous of Michael Gerson[" What Atheists Can't Answer," op-ed, July 13] to refer to me as "intellectually courageous and unfailingly kind," since (a) this might be taken as proof that he hardly knows me and (b) it was he who was so kind when I once rang him to check a scurrilous peacenik rumor that he was a secret convert from Judaism to Christian fundamentalism.

However, it is his own supposedly kindly religion that prevents him from seeing how insulting is the latent suggestion of his position: the appalling insinuation that I would not know right from wrong if I was not supernaturally guided by a celestial dictatorship, which could read and condemn my thoughts and which could also consign me to eternal worshipful bliss (a somewhat hellish idea) or to an actual hell.

Hitchens is calling God's rule a celestial dictatorship, because that is what it is. A dictatorship refers to an autocratic form of absolute rule by leadership unrestricted by law, constitutions, or other social and political factors within the state. How is that not describing God's rule?

Also point out where they are quote-mining. Show don't tell. Give examples, because I can point to several places in the Bible where what they say is absolutely right (the Book of Judges and Daniel 4:24-26 come to mind).

I also love the appeal to unnamed secular sources at the end. Again I ask how hard is it to list sources or even just names of some of these "critics"?

He follows that up with a list of questions:

I would ask Hitchens, Harris, Dawkins, and company, if this book is so evil, how has it survived all of these years?

I don't really fall into any of those categories but I can give answers. By force. It survived long enough to become the state religion of the Roman Empire. Then it was mandated to the people. After the fall of the Roman Empire, we have the Middle Ages, where Christianity ruled supreme. The inquisition, the crusades and colonization of the world forced people to accept Christianity or die. After that, most people accepted it as the truth because they never questioned it or looked into it very deeply. Low educational standards helped to keep people from looking into it also. The more educated a country the less religious they are, with the US being the only real exception to that rule and religiousness in America is falling.

Edit: This is not the only way Christianity flourished. I would also say a cult of personality helped it at many times (much like most mega-churches today, that struggle when the pastor leaves or dies), plus many other sociological reasons. It is not a simple answer to give.

Why has it been the bedrock of forming the most humane civilization in history?

I have no idea of what civilization you are talking about. The only civilization ever formed on the Bible was Europe in the Middle Ages, I doubt you would call that humane. If you speak of America, I wouldn't call us the most humane (death penalties, high crime rates, health care for only the elect few, etc) and it would be extreme revisionist history to claim the US was founded on the Bible. Just point to where the Bible or Jesus is mentioned in the US Constitution or even the Declaration of Independence (God and Creator are mentioned in the Declaration but Jefferson's God and Creator was not the Christian God, but it does not specify which God or Creator).

How does it continue, if it is mean-spirited, to spread love around the world and turn hard-hearted criminals into gentle lambs?

Psychological reasons of the human mind. Christians cherry-pick what they read in it and into it. The same reason some Muslims can find peace and love for all things in the Koran and others find justification for killing infidels. The Crusades were a Christian undertaking. The killing of abortion doctors has been a Christian undertaking.

How could reading it have resulted in such people as Augustine and St. Francis?

How could reading the Koran resulted in such people as Benazir Bhutto, André Carson, or Kareem Abdul-Jabbar. This is a retarded question and can support any religion or just about anything.

Why would the Chinese, in the midst of atheistic madness, turn to it as their refuge?

Don't try and load the question or anything there Colson. Define atheistic madness. Mao was power hungry and it had little to do with atheism, except that Mao disliked religion (Christianity was never outlawed in China). Most people didn't turn to Christianity. So how did those people survive?

Finally Colson says that because people have predicted the death of Christianity and it hasn't happened yet, then it must be divine influence keeping it around. Non sequitur much? So by that logic, since people have predicted the death of atheism, then it must be divinely inspired also (possibly even more so since atheism is on the rise)...

That is it, that is all his evidence for the Bible being true and infallible.

Wednesday, June 10, 2009

Raping and Murdering

This is from Ray Comfort's Blog:

"Starbuck wrote: Now Let me ask you or any athiest why they insist on spreading their beliefs? I have asked a few and the response is that people need to know the truth. And they are there to show them.

Now why on earth would you want to go and do that? Because of this percieved Chistian Religion evils that have been perpetuated upon mankind?

Or did you in your own intelligence come to the conclusion that you are better and smarter then God? I suppose so, seeing you don't believe in him.

Why would you want to take away my hope? So many people need that. Hope. Why do you want to steal and destroy that for them?

I am assuming you are a decent person? Of course you are. Well, before I turned to Jesus, I was NOT a decent person. I lied, I drank and did drugs. I was violent. But I had no direction. I was angry, fearful and mean. I hated blacks, I hated gays, I hated mexicans, I hated chinese. I hated pretty much everyone. I hated my parents, I hated my siblings. I hated school and then I hated work. I hated the police. I hated doctors. Did I mention I was violent? I loved guns. I loved knives and swords and other weapons. For some unknown reason, I never hated God and I always knew he existed but sometimes had doubts. Evolution to me was just silliness. Even when I had turned my back on God.

I was headed for a confontation..
with someone or something.

Before you say I need to get my head examined, they did. They put a label on me.. paranoid schizophrenic. Thought disorder. They measured my IQ at 210. Although It would be nowhere near that. I have no idea why it was so high. But at the time I prided myself at how clever and smart I was.

I wanted to kill. Kill on a large scale. The doctors gave me medicine that toned it down a bit, but it made me feel sick all the time. Which made me angry.

But then a person very special to me talked me to about God and how he could help. Well I reached out and God grabbed me so hard, I could feel he was around. perhaps just my imagination. But when I accepted him as my Lord and Savior, I remember I had felt so tainted before. And everything started to wash away. And I had HOPE. Finially, hope!

And you athiests want to take that away?

Don't you think Churches are filled with idiots like myself? REALLY bad people who turned to God? What would happen if you took it away?

Those people would revert BACK to what they were before.. well a lot of them would. Only now I know I would have a target. The people who took away my hope. I would hate them beyond words. I would kill them on sight. I would hate athiests with all my passion I could muster.

I know I would do that. Because I would have no hope.

I know you cannot understand why a person would do such a thing. but that is because you are decent. Without God, I am not a decent person. I am worse then Jeffery Dahmer.


But with God, I am a ok father, and an ok husband... my wife says I am a great husband.. but I digress. My kids do talk to me. And I don't hate anyone. Plus I am a great technician... pays the bills and keeps me fed.


Now, let me ask you one more time athiests.. Why do you want to take that away?"

The emphasis was added later by someone else. The claim is that without god this person would be out raping and murdering. Obviously, this particular person has mental issues and he admits that, but the claim of raping and murdering is not uncommon to most Fundamentalists and other Christians. I find this claim comes after the theist is backed into a corner where they have to admit that either A) their morals do not come from god or B) without god they would be out raping and murdering. For some reason instead of making the sane rational choice, they opt for B.

Even with the more extreme circumstances, like that which I quoted, I do not believe these people would rape and kill if it was proven there was no god. If one is so inclined to violence then that person can justify violence through the Bible and teachings of Christianity. For example the murder of Dr. George Tiller recently by Scott Roeder. Scott justified his murder as earthly judgment by god.

The fact is it is not god keeping these people from murdering. No, it is the same thing that keeps us all from murdering each other. The golden or platinum rule. The rule that developed through the process of evolution. Humans are social animals. Our ancestors had to work together to survive. In turn that working together required some form of trust between everyone in the group. Those who are inclined to kill and rape, would not be trusted. For the sake of the rest of the group they would be thrown out to survive on their own or killed. This is a simplified version of how morals evolved but one can get the general idea.

This is why I don't believe the people that say they would murder, steal, and rape if it was proven there was no god. Sure they wouldn't have some super natural power to answer too, but they would have their own genetics and the people in their community to answer too. Also anyone should be able to understand, it is better that they don't do these things because they don't want these things done to them. Where we arrive back at the Golden Rule.

Wednesday, May 6, 2009

What Christianity Can Do For You!

There I am sitting at my apartment/condo whatever you want to call it and my cell phone rings. Checking the number I notice it is from a friend of mine. He is a firefighter and I know it was his 24 hours own, because my neighbor works the same job just opposite shift. I answer the phone and we talk a bit about nothing and then he asks if I can do something for him. Small talk your way into a favor, I was expecting this a bit. He wanted me to buy some Magic: The Gathering cards for him. You see he is building a new deck and needs a few cards to make it work.

Now why ask me to buy the cards, you say. Well it is simple, his wife doesn't like the game and thinks it is a bit evil. She really doesn't want him spending money on the cards. Mind you he makes plenty of money for her and the two kids and she works also. So it is not an issue of finances. She just thinks the game is not very Christian, which it isn't but it is not suppose to be either. It is fantasy.

Let's look at that word.

Fantasy - a genre that uses magic and other supernatural forms as a primary element of plot, theme, and/or setting. Fantasy is generally distinguished from science fiction and horror by the expectation that it steers clear of scientific and macabre themes, respectively, though there is a great deal of overlap between the three (collectively known as speculative fiction).

That is a description from Wiki of the genre. Now here is the definition.

Fantasy:

1 obsolete: hallucination
2: fancy; especially: the free play of creative imagination
3: a creation of the imaginative faculty whether expressed or merely conceived: as
a: a fanciful design or invention
b: a chimerical or fantastic notion
c: fantasia
d: imaginative fiction featuring especially strange settings and grotesque characters —called also fantasy fiction
4: caprice
5: the power or process of creating especially unrealistic or improbable mental images in response to psychological need; also: a mental image or a series of mental images (as a daydream) so created fantasies of adolescence
6: a coin usually not intended for circulation as currency and often issued by a dubious authority (as a government-in-exile)

Okay obviously we are talking about definition 3 here and part d of that definition. The keyword to me in the definition is imaginative. It ain't real folks. Why is there a stigma associated with imagination? Just because your silly old book has some imaginative things in it, doesn't make them real or anything that talks about something similar real.

A card game is not going to destroy the world. Video games are not inherently evil, like my ex told me after we were married (not a good sign of things to come). You know sometimes a card game is a card game.

So instead of just letting him have his hobbies and interests, my friend is now hiding his actions from his wife. Even something small like this can't be healthy for a relationship. I am not saying their marriage will fall apart, I am saying that they are not fully embracing one another as a whole. Why? Because of a silly card game and an equally silly religious idea.